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Plumbers Do It Better!

From time to time, you'll find one of those memorable monuments that you can't just walk away from without taking a picture of it. No one would believe you if you didn't.

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Plumbers Do It Better!

Postby Inspector007 » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:50 am

The trick about doing it yourself is knowing when to quit and let the professional take over.

This guy insisted in doing his own DWV system in his new house.

After several attempts and many Do-it-yourself books, this is the best work he could present for inspection:

Image

Two re-inspections later, he was ordered to secure the services of a licensed plumber. The plumber had no choice but to start all over again, after removing the original work, here's what that same rough looks like:

Image

And here is what's left of the original masterpiece:

Image

Lesson learned:

Stick to what you know and know your limitations
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Postby Sylvan Tieger » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:37 pm

I guess their are licensed requirements for a reason huh?

I had to laugh when a local roto franchise guy told me he knew plumbing I asked him how much training did he receive he said 12 weeks.

I said "wow you got to be a genius as I went through a 5 year apprenticeship of 10,000 hours plus 744 hours of formal class room studies and then another 5 years working under the auspices of a master plumber before I was eligible to take my 4 part masters exams"

He went on to say how book learning was really not that important so the franchise said its OK to send him out with 12 weeks crash course in plumbing and drain cleaning.

I asked if he knew of a franchise that offered a crash course for becoming a doctor with out wasting my time with book learning?
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Postby Heating Instructor » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:08 am

Sylvan,
It never ceases to amaze me!
Scary , but oh so true .
Whatever happened to " uphold the safety and health of our nation" ?
That is the oath I took more than 20 years ago for MPL.

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Postby Sylvan Tieger » Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:33 pm

The almighty dollar was able to get the best officials (politicians) money could buy. IMHO

PVC is a known carcinogenic and the fire department was on record that they would not fight a fire below ground level where plastic was used as the fumes would kill people long before the flames reached the victims.

Now NYC is increasing the height of the buildings where this proven toxic material can be used.

Home builders are dictating code policy as they are strictly bottom line pricing lowest bid wins and never a question of quality.

AAV's, wet venting, short radius drainage fittings and its getting worse .

I wish I had a dime for every boiler or hot water heater that was installed over 10 years ago and no one bothered to go back and check the safe operation or bothered to add the new updates as people are looking to be grand fathered in to avoid safety devices.

Install and forget until a tragedy happens then there is all kinds of finger pointing.


Sometimes we (LMP'S) are called upon to service a gas water heater, furnace, boiler, range or other gas equipment that appears to be producing less energy than the customer feels is adequate. Some of these calls are unfounded but others are legitimate complaints. After exploring many of the possible conditions that might be causing this problem, we quite often still can't come up with an accurate diagnosis.

There are times that for various reasons the appliance in question may not be utilizing gas at the rate of input for which it was designed. Therefore we must determine if the burner is functioning at its designed rate of consumption or if it is burning at a level less than optimal. This can be accomplished simply, by utilizing the gas meter and a watch with a second hand. To understand how to perform this procedure, the following basic information must be understood by the servicing technician:

Natural gas in this region has a heating value of approximately 1,000 British Thermal Units (BTU) per cubic foot (CF). This means that 1 CF of gas, when completely burned, will produce 1,000 BTUs of energy.

(NY varies between 900- 1,200 BTUs)

Gas appliances are rated by their manufacturers as to how many BTUs of energy they will produce or CF of gas they will consume for each hour the burner is in operation. This information will be found on the appliance's rating plate and is usually stated as, "INPUT [number) BTU/HR," Knowing that 1CF of gas can produce 1,000 BTUs, we must be able to assure that we can supply 1CF of gas for each 1,000 BTUs of rating.


To determine the actual input of gas being consumed by the appliance we can measure or "clock" the actual rate of input to the burner by reading the gas meter and timing the rate of gas consumption by the appliance.

The gas meter has various dials that indicate the volume of gas in CF that has passed through it. For this procedure we are only concerned with either the half (. 5) CF dial or the 2 CF dial.

To clock an appliance, perform the following steps in the order listed:

Shut all appliances and gas consuming devices except the one being tested.

Raise the thermostat or heat control setting for the appliance to a point high enough to insure that it will burn continuously without shutting down until you shut it down.

Start the appliance burning.

At the gas meter, accurately count the number of revolutions turned on either the . 5 CF dial or the 2 CF dial for exactly one minute (60 seconds). This will measure the revolutions per minute (RPM) of that dial. For example, the dial may have turned 2 times, or it may have turned 3.5 times, or 5.75 times, or any other reading higher or lower.

Multiply this reading by:

For the .5 CF dial--- RPM X 30 = CF/HR
For the 2 CF dial--- RPM X 120 = CF/HR.
This is the volume of gas in CF/HR, actually being consumed by the appliance being tested.

Compare the number found in step 5 with the BTU input rating of the appliance. If it is less than the manufacturer's listed BTU rating, the burner is not being supplied with the proper volume of gas.
For example:
Let us assume that a boiler rated at 150,000 BTU/HR does not seem to be providing an adequate amount of heat. If we suspect that the input to the boiler is not what the manufacturer designed it to operate at, we have to determine the actual input that is being supplied to the burner.
Following the above procedure, suppose the .5 CF dial in one minute's time has revolved 4 revolutions (4 RPM). When we multiply 4 X 30 = 120. Or if we are observing the 2CF dial, it will have revolved 1 time, 1 X 120 = 120. Therefore, 120 CF/HR is the actual input being supplied to the burner. This is substantially below the 150 CF/HR input required to yield the 150,000 BTUs, the boiler is rated to produce. Knowing this, we must look for the various reasons that may be causing this problem.

Some of the explanations for this may be:

Inadequate gas pressure from the gas supplier.

Obstructions or debris in the gas piping, valves or pressure regulators.

Undersized gas piping. <<<<<<< ( I see this all the time)

A defective appliance gas valve.

Clogged or improperly sized burner orifices.
The final resolution to the problem will involve a careful, logical process of elimination and a step by step investigation into all of the possible reasons that could cause the problem. It is imperative that when working with gas, all due care and diligence be taken and adherence to all safety precautions be observed in every phase of servicing and troubleshooting.

Only persons properly trained to work with gas should attempt to do so.
It may be possible that the gas supplier will have to be called upon to correct the problem if it is found that the reduced input is caused by defects in the supplier's equipment. Whatever the solution to the problem is, determining the rate of gas input is among the first important steps to take for properly troubleshooting gas equipment.

I wonder how many 12 week wonders even knew this tid bit of information
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Postby Heating Instructor » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:04 am

Sylvan,

Thanks for sharing a wealth of information that took many many hours of 'schooling" and training as well as on the job experience.

As far as the "12 week wonders" , NAOHSM, NORA , NEFI, are doing a wonderful job of lobbying and setting training requirements in the oil heat industry as well as testing. The union plumbing schools do very much the same. Where I teach and do seminars here on Long Island, we can only hope that companies take advantage of all the resources for training , instruction and education that are available to them for their recruits.

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Hope this helps you
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Postby geniun » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:46 pm

Nice elaboration
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Re: Plumbers Do It Better!

Postby AlJohnson » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:10 pm

Went to this thread because I can be a sucker for DIY but always end up putting myself in a very bad situation. My last and worst endeavor was unclogging the toilet bowl.
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Re: Plumbers Do It Better!

Postby Sylvan Tieger » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:03 pm

Nothing wrong with a DIY with in reason and something like gas / heating systems or where the potable water could be compromised should be left to licensed professionals.

I am doing plumbing / heating / fire suppression systems for over 42 years and I am still earning .

When someone is looking for a job and tells me they know plumbing , electrical /HVAC I always ask how old they are consider each of these fields do require a 5 year apprenticeship.

Anyone who "knows" all these trades must be at least 35+

6 weeks roto guys do not make any type of skill qualifications :roll: :roll:
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Bronx , New York 10471
718 601 6299
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